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May 8, 2010 - Posted by | Immigration, Politics | ,

23 Comments »

  1. This is a federal law that the state of Arizona has adopted. There is no racism involved. Whenever you take this tact it just proves that you do not have an argument.

    Comment by thoth | May 8, 2010 | Reply

  2. So white people are going to get pulled over too and asked to show their papers? You are way too quick to give up basic rights guaranteed by the constitution, go back about a week into the archives here and read the constitution.

    Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 8, 2010 | Reply

  3. I’ve got a question on the “illegal” part of the immigration dilemma that I hope someone somewhere can answer.

    Why do the pro-immigration people direct their energy towards the US government’s need to manage and control immigration.

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to focus that energy on foreign government policies which encourage emigration?

    Mexico is a great example. They have as much or more than the US in the way of natural resources. The only reason they are so much poorer than we is their corrupt government.

    If you see something I don’t understand I hope you will point it out but changing our immigration policies would just be treating the symptoms. In order to treat the disease you have to address the problems with the Mexican government.

    Comment by Chicken Hammer | May 8, 2010 | Reply

  4. How do you propose we change other country’s “emigration”. It seems obvious to me that we have to deal with our own borders and obviously try to get cooperation from our border countries, but there is only so much we can do. If you are proposing we invest in Mexico so they keep jobs there, I think you might get a little push back in our country on that idea. What can we do to Mexico other than exert pressure on them?

    Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 9, 2010 | Reply

  5. Going after the companies who hire illegals is where we should start!

    Comment by KayInMaine | May 9, 2010 | Reply

  6. Get rid of NAFTA, which has destroyed much of Mexico’s agricultural industry and replaced it with drug gangs fighting over the scraps.

    Comment by William | May 9, 2010 | Reply

  7. Jim, you’ll love this. Glenn Greenwald did a piece today on Salon.com and Jane Hamsher proudly linked to it on her Twitter page, because she joins with Glenn G. and Glenn Beck in their disdain for Cass Sunstein and everything Obama.

    Well, Paul Krugman lambastes Greenwald and FDL:

    And here’s the thing: by claiming that there’s a huge scandal when nothing worse happened than insufficient care about disclosure, Greenwald and the people at FDL are actually reducing our ability to call foul on real corruption. After all, if everything is a scandal, nothing is a scandal. One of these days, perhaps soon, we’ll have a genuinely corrupt administration again — but when whistleblowers try to call attention to the misdeeds, you can be sure that there will be claims that “even liberals said that Obama did things just as bad or worse.” The crusade against Gruber is getting really destructive.

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/more-on-jon-gruber/

    Greenwald’s original piece that prompted Krugman’s response:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein

    Comment by KayInMaine | May 9, 2010 | Reply

  8. If they are Canadians or Europeans, and they happen to be white then yes they should be asked if the police officer thinks something is suspicious.
    And remember Jim, the police already have to have a reason to pull somebody over. They aren’t going to pull someone over JUST to ask the driver to show identification.
    Now if an officer pulls over somebody for speeding, and in the process the officer discovers the vehicle he just pulled over is full of illegals don’t you think he has the right to ask the driver for his identification?
    Maybe you should also go back and see the federal law that I posted when it comes to immigrants and when they are required to show their immigration papers, and identification.

    Also you give up your rights every time you go through a security check at your local airport. But of course you don’t seem to have a problem with that.

    One more question for you, what does an officer ask you when they pull you over???

    Comment by thoth | May 9, 2010 | Reply

    • “And remember Jim, the police already have to have a reason to pull somebody over. They aren’t going to pull someone over JUST to ask the driver to show identification.”

      I believe you are wrong on this count. They can pull them over just for reasonable suspicion, ie….brown skinned. That is what people are upset about, thoth, and you and a whole bunch of people seem to have a mental block when it comes to that fact. I personally don’t have any problem with people being asked for ID at borders, airports, train stations, bus stations, when pulled over in your car, at a bank……..and going along with Kay, when they apply for a job.

      The people supporting this bigoted see it in black and white, either you are for illegals or against illegals….there is no nuance with you folks like the idea that legal American citizens who look latino might be hassled, locked up and treated like shit simply because they look latino. I’m not OK with that AT ALL.

      We need to get to the source of the problem, our porous borders, our crooked businesses and farmers who hire them and the loopholes in our laws that allow them to get government assistance when they are not legal citizens.

      Racial profiling is not the answer.

      Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 10, 2010 | Reply

  9. Kay, I agree with you. About a year ago we had a meat packing facility raided and ICE picked up a good number of illegals, but not one single manager or department head was arrested.

    Comment by thoth | May 9, 2010 | Reply

  10. Mexico has been reluctant to address their emigration problem in the past. Their attitude will change if we cut off their supply of US dollars.

    I also agree with Kay’s suggestion of going after the companies who hire illegals. Cutting off the supply of available jobs in the US will also help decrease Mexico’s emigration problem.

    Comment by Chicken Hammer | May 10, 2010 | Reply

  11. “I personally don’t have any problem with people being asked for ID at borders, airports, train stations, bus stations, when pulled over in your car, at a bank”
    Jim, even the authorities have said that they already have to have the person pulled over before they can ask this. And even then they still have to have reasonable suspicion.
    They CAN NOT walk up to somebody on the street and say “hey, you there so me your ID and or papers.”
    This is NOT racial profiling, this just happens to be one small solution for a major problem.

    Did you even read the federal law? I posted it for you. Arizona took the federal law and voted to make it a state law. Do you have a problem with the federal government having this on their books?

    Comment by thoth | May 10, 2010 | Reply

    • They went back and changed the wording of the law removing “lawful contact” and saying only if they are stopped for something else. So I’m sure no police officer would EVER make up a reason to stop someone they thought “looked” illegal. If you think that there won’t be any racial profiling with this law in place, you are deluding yourself, really, thoth. This law will infringe on American citizens rights….see the constitution, did you miss my post reminding us all of stuff in the constitution. I’m not willing to throw away parts of the constitution, are you?

      Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 10, 2010 | Reply

  12. Parts of the constitution have already been thrown out or at least stepped on.

    Why is it such a problem enforcing our immigration laws. Granted they are considered democrats in waiting but they cannot be stopped just because a LEO feels like it.
    If a US citizen carries a gun in Mexico and go to jail
    If you cross the N Korean border you go to jail
    If an illegal crosses our border why shouldn’t they be stopped
    This doesn’t affect you much in Michigan because even US citizens don’t want to go there, but in livable states it is a problem.

    Comment by atlanta ralph | May 12, 2010 | Reply

    • You stay away from Michigan Ralph, you’re right, it’s terrible here, you would never want to come here. Really, just stay away.

      This next statement shows me you aren’t even serious about talking about the Arizona law. “If an illegal crosses our border why shouldn’t they be stopped”. OF COURSE THEY SHOULD BE STOPPED, WHO SAID THEY SHOULDN’T. I thought maybe all caps would get your attention. But I think the place to stop them IS at the border.

      I’m all for protecting our borders. I know many liberals aren’t too keen on doing much at all, to be honest. I think the wall should be built and we should hire hundreds of thousands of border guards that are put through a thorough training course before they are deployed. I think employers who hire illegals should be fined, shut down, or whatever the hell it takes to stop them from breaking the law. I think we should help Mexico get control of their country…drug lords and shit are running the country. If we help them stabilize their country, it will help us. I think we should not give food stamps or welfare to people who are illegal. I don’t think we should turn illegals away from hospitals, but once they are well…they need to go back to their own country.

      So you can type whatever you want Ralph, but I don’t think my opinions are anything like what you portray. Having said all that, I think the idiotic laws they have passed recently in Arizona are racist, they target a select group of citizens (and illegals) and it’s the citizens I’m concerned about, not the illegals. The racial profiling law they passed is not the answer to all the concerns people have, it creates more. Most illegals are turned in by legal immigrants or other natural born Latinos, the law is counterproductive. And if I lived in Arizona, I would rather the police do their jobs and bust the meth lab or the child molestors or the theives or the murderers or whatever. But I wouldn’t want them chasing people around the desert while law and order crumbles in the cities and suburbs.
      End rant…..

      Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 12, 2010 | Reply

  13. I live in a sanctuary city in Colorado and I have seen first hand what illegals are causing.
    2yrs ago my wife were heading home after having dinner with some friends of ours. We were about 3 blocks away from our house when we passed a horrible car accident near a shopping plaza. The next morning while listening to the radio I heard what happened and my heart just sank. It turned out to be a hit and run. An illegal named Francis Herandez (he actually had a number of allies-es) was driving a SUV 80mph in a 40mph zone when he ran a red light and hit a pickup truck that was turning left. The collision threw the pickup onto the sidewalk were it hit a transformer box. The truck hit the box so hard that it threw it into a Baskin Robbins where it struck and killed a 3yr old boy who was sitting at a table waiting for his mother to bring him his ice cream. The 2 women in the pickup were also killed in the collision. Hernandez however survived the crash, and since he was an illegal and was driving without insurance, he decided that it would be best for him to run. Thankfully he was caught in the shopping plaza.

    It turned out that Hernandez had a long history in the surrounding area. He had been arrested 16 times in the past 5yrs! Jim please tell me what would happen to you and me if we had 16 arrests in 5yrs?

    Being an illegal in a sanctuary city Hernandez learned how to work the system for him. All he has to do is give a fake name and a fake address and not show up to court….no worries for him.
    Now, if Colorado had a law like Arizona, he wouldn’t have stood a chance. Sadly it took 3 lives to throw this scumbag into prison, and now my tax dollars are going to pay for his days in jail. Even after killing 2 woman and a 3yr old boy, Hernandez can still get out of prison in 40yrs….go figure.

    Oh yeah…the parents of the 3yr old boy are immigrants from Eastern Europe. They went through our nation’s immigration process. Sure it took them awhile, but they respected our laws and our way of life, and they are now American citizens. Hernandez on the other hand showed not a single ounce of respect for their son. At the time of the accident Hernandez also had a MySpace page up where he had “F*%k the police” written.

    So go ahead Jim, call me and everybody else that supports Arizona’s (and our federal government’s) law a racist. If that is all that you can say, then you have already lost the argument.

    Comment by thoth | May 12, 2010 | Reply

    • That sounds like a shitty individual..about as shitty as the white motherfucker here in Michigan who went to the bar after work, drank himself shitfaced, got in his car and ran over three 15 year old boys riding their bikes down the road. Killed all three of them. He didn’t even know he hit them, a relative turned him in because he had blood and clothing sticking out of his bumper.

      There are assholes of every race, telling a story about one asshole who is Latino doesn’t do anything but prove that there are assholes in every race. Read my above comment if you want to know how I feel about the whole issue, we need to secure our borders not hassle our own citizens because of how they look. For the record, I’m white, you know?

      Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 12, 2010 | Reply

  14. Jim, I respect your views, and I’m going to agree to disagree with you here. Turning this into a race issue is a cop out because if this law was being enforced in North Dakota nobody would have a problem with it. But heaven forbid you try to enforce this in a state that shares their state border with Mexico. This entire issue comes down to how somebody’s status is, not how they look.
    The United Sates is the only nation that shares its border with a 3rd world (at best 2nd world) nation, and the second somebody tries to enforce some kind of law to help ease the flood of illegal immigration spewing across our border we are made out to be the bad guys. Again status…not race. Hell, even our own government turns its back on its own border agents when they shoot an illegal drug smuggler in the thigh (not ass, just read the reports). And this was even under Bush’s administration.

    Comment by thoth | May 12, 2010 | Reply

    • I’m glad our founding fathers had the interests of all citizens in mind when they wrote the constitution and the Bill of Rights. And the rest of the Amendments were a good thing too. It’s too bad that the bigots are running the state in Arizona, otherwise they might have passed a law that actually helps the problem instead of making it worse. The ONLY good thing about the Arizona Laws is that it will get the feds to do something about it, if your Republican buddies don’t stop it again and again and again.

      Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 13, 2010 | Reply

      • “My Republican buddies”, sorry, but I’m an Independent now because your Progressive Nanny State buddies took over the Democratic party.

        “It’s too bad that the bigots are running the state in Arizona” You also must believe that our federal government was full of bigots when they passed the law first.

        Comment by thoth | May 13, 2010 | Reply

      • Contrary to your assertion, the democratic party has become very moderate over the years. You’ve been drinking Glenn Beck’s Kook-aid or something. But people will believe what they will and you are entitled to your misguided, delusional beliefs too.

        Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 14, 2010 | Reply

  15. Not very leftist of you Jim. Have no fear, I would not choose to live in Michigan so you can rest easy. I have attended several seminars at UM but just short stays.

    The immigration issue should be a federal issue and not left up to the states. The states should have the authority to enforce federal immigration laws but not make them. As a border state, Arizona has unique issues that the federal government is lax to take action on so they took it on themselves.

    This is not a democrat or republican issue but a national issue. We have laws concerning immigration and illegals but no one want to offend so they are ignored. Past administrations have stepped around illegals for decades, including and especially Bush with his try at amnesty.

    If I commit a legal infraction I am asked for ID and that is not racial profiling but someone who is brown skinned gets asked the same thing, it is racial profiling and racist. Building a fence and guarding it is not a practical solution because we have too much border. Enforce tough immigration laws, have stiff fines on employers who employ illegals, develop a guest worker permit, eliminate birthright citizenship and send those who do not comply back.

    Comment by atlanta ralph | May 13, 2010 | Reply

  16. If someone commits an infraction, hell yes they should show some ID, I don’t have a problem with that and I’m sure most if not all dems don’t have a problem with it either.

    Unless we secure our borders, all the other stuff is just treating the symptom. The border fence could be a public works project, employs some folks and in the process secure the borders….Canada too. If we can afford to piss away billions of dollars on military hardware that never gets used, we can employ some people to build a fence.

    I agree with your other suggestions, as does most of the American people I would think. Now if we can just get the spineless politicians to do something about it.

    Comment by ExtremeLiberal | May 13, 2010 | Reply


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